Love, Not H8
Sometimes, when we’re watching an old film, or listening to classic rock, my husband will wistfully say, “I wish I had lived during the sixties.” To which I always respond — not I. In the 60′s, life was peace, love, and The Beatles for some. For others, it was Motown, protests, fire hoses, and hatred. And I always remind my husband — we probably would not have gone to college together and shared those free love good times. Also, it would have been illegal for us to be married up until 1967, when Loving v. Virginia finally struck down miscegenation laws. In the year 2000, the state of Alabama became the last state to repeal its law against mixed-race marriage. In the year 2000!
I am still so proud that America saw beyond race and chose the man I considered to be the best candidate — Barack Obama — to be the next President of the United States.
His victory sends a huge message to the world, that America is indeed a country of tremendous opportunity and promise. The struggles of folks like the Lovings — and Barack Obama’s own parents who surely faced judgment for their relationship in their time as well — have paid off in visible and real ways. We have come so far in terms of civil rights, and this past election was proof of that.
But in terms of equal rights, I believe that this country just took a real step backwards — in Arkansas, where a law passed to prevent unmarried couples from adopting or serving as foster parents, in California with the passage of Proposition 8, and in my state of Florida where Amendment 2 passed. As someone who’s in a marriage that would have once been deemed illegal, I find the parallels between this country’s attitude towards interracial marriage and same-sex marriage to be dismaying and disheartening. And I am not alone — the late Mildred Loving felt the same way, and spoke out in favor of same-sex marriage before she passed away this year. “I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry… That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about,” she declared.
Growing up in the Caribbean, I think I’ve heard just about every argument against homosexuality, every derisive slur, every religious condemnation. Sometimes it feels pointless to argue against people who believe insane things, who act like somehow being gay makes you less of a person. All I can do is assume that they didn’t grow up around gay people. They didn’t have gay relatives or friends. They couldn’t have — otherwise they’d understand that being gay is not a choice. It’s not something you wake up and decide to be, to be shocking or edgy. It is who you are born to be, same as I was born to be a black woman. They would understand that gay, straight, black, white, Latin, Asian, whatever you are – people are people, with the same emotions and needs that we all have.
Seeing the subtle and not-so-subtle discrimination that my gay friends and relatives have endured has had an effect on me. It’s made me jaded towards the “religious” arguments against homosexuality.
I can’t fully understand how someone could call themselves Christians, or spiritual, or “good people,” and say that they believe in a loving and just God, but then simultaneously pour down such fire and brimstone judgment on others because of their sexual orientation. It reveals stunning hypocrisy, in my view.
I have noticed that those who condemn homosexuality tend to pick and choose their Biblical verses very carefully. The verses chosen always come from The Book of Isaiah, or Kings, or Leviticus. Very seldom do these folks consider Matthew, chapter 7 verse 12, the Golden Rule, in their arguments — “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” Or John chapter 8 verse 7 — let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
I guess these people consider themselves to be without sin, and therefore capable of judging others. But to be really real with you — I don’t believe religious arguments should even matter in this arena. In a country that purports to embrace the separation of church and state, I honestly don’t get how the California Supreme Court decision that recognized same-sex marriage in California as an equal right could be overridden. It is disturbing and scary to me that the rights already granted to the citizens of California could even be taken away, even by a popular vote. I can’t imagine how it would make me feel, if Loving v. Virginia was somehow, someday revoked.
Marriage is such a special commitment. But according to information at DivorceRate.org, 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. There are drive through wedding chapels, so if you’re wasted and whimsical in Vegas you can make two bad decisions at once. I’ve known people — Catholics, mind you! — who have had two or three divorces. We watch and cackle at reality television competitions that steer couples towards the altar and end with a rose ceremony — and often, a ring and an on-bended-knee proposal of marriage. So it makes me laugh when straight people say things like marriage is sacred, when it’s been made into such a mockery by so many.
Then you’ll hear arguments like, “I don’t have a problem with gay people, let them be together… call it a civil union, just don’t call it marriage.” Why not? I don’t believe that allowing same sex couples to get married in any way diminishes my own marriage. How on earth would granting the right of a man and another man, or a woman and another woman to be legally joined, affect me? Quite simply, it doesn’t.
I agreed completely with Keith Olbermann’s special comment on Prop 8. I thought his passion was palpable, his words eloquent, and his meaning clear.
I believe that love is love. And people are people. I believe that if two consenting adults love each other and want to get married, they should be able to.
In the meantime, the Proposition 8 movement is provoking expression from wonderful and unexpected sources. Brilliant comedian and former Afrobella of the Week Wanda Sykes had spoken out humorously about gay marriage before, in her stand up special. But because of Prop 8, she is now one of very few black celebrities I can think of who has come out of the closet. Wanda just revealed that she herself has a wife. And I bet they are an adorable couple!
In Wanda’s own words: “Gay is not a choice. That’s like telling me I chose to be a woman, I chose to be black…I am proud to be a woman, I’m proud to be a black woman, and I’m proud to be gay. Now let’s go and get our damn equal rights!”
Anna Quindlen’s great Newsweek essay, The Loving Decision outlines the similarities, and reveals the inevitiability that someday soon, there will be a Loving vs. Virginia for same sex marriage. It’s only a matter of time. Someday, it will seem crazy that same sex marriage was once deemed illegal. Someday. In the meantime, we’re in for more protests and anger, heartbreak and struggle, here in America the land of the free and the home of the brave.
I am not a blogger of color alone in lamenting the passage of Prop 8 and Amendment 2. Jack and Jill Politics, Pam’s House Blend, Incredible Juju, Racialicious, Acts of Faith, That Girl Has Issues, Noctuary, and Simply Fred Smith all did wonderful, informative, eloquent posts examining race and it’s place in the passage of Prop 8. They are all worth a read. And FYI, I got the photo above from this pro-same sex marriage Facebook group.
I expect this to be the kind of post that provokes comments with vastly differing opinions. Please feel free to express yours, but I ask that you remain respectful in doing so.
What are your views on this very hot button issue, bellas and fellas?
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muslimahlocs – you are correct that I didn’t address other religious views on Prop 8; I focused on the fact that this country’s most apparent supporters of the traditional marriage agenda are Christian. Every argument I’ve read and report I’ve seen thus far has focused on the Bible’s response to homosexuality, and how that has influenced the opposition to same sex marriage. And also, I wrote this from a very personal perspective, so my response speaks to my own views based on my experiences.
This wasn’t intended to be a reported analysis of religious responses to same sex marriage throughout America. This is how I feel about Prop 8, plain and simple. I am learning a great deal from everyone’s responses, and I’d like to hear more of your views based on your experiences and beliefs.
This is a very insightful post, Afrobella. You bring up a touching argument for this side of the conflict. However, I’d like to give a point of view on the other side of things.
Yes, I am a Christian and I am against gay marriage but I am not against gay people. I respect people regardless of their own sexual orientation. However, in my mind, I can not call gay marriage “marriage”. The solid definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. And,overall, marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. In order to enjoy this privilege, the couple needs to fit in the definition of marriage, the union between a man and a woman. All the arguments concerning discrimination would be valid if marriage was a right, but there are boundaries. We don’t allow close relatives to marry, and we don’t allow polygamy. I am sure all these relationships involve love of some sort but they are not allowed to be legally married because of the boundaries.
Although this point of view seems to be taboo in my immediate surroundings (like my school), I feel this is a safe place to express my opinions.
Thank you.
Bella, I am disapointed that just because you don’t believe in the bible, you would call it a book of fairytales. It is a book that alot of people live their lives according to. I have seen it transform many people. So it is not a book of fairytales. You want us to respect your opinions you should also respect the opinions of your readers.
Our founding fathers of this country were christians they prayed and talked to God daily about what to do with this country. Our money says in God we Trust. The pledge says “one nation under god”
The following passage is from the bible translated to the NIV version
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New International Version)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
This is not just talking to homosexuals it is talking to anyone who practices in immoral behavior according to the word of God.
Many of our judicial laws come straight from the book of Deuteronomy.
The bible also speaks about our nation rising up against the word of God
Daniel 7:25: “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
The message version says
Then he will blaspheme the High God, persecute the followers of the High God, and try to get rid of sacred worship and moral practice. God’s holy people will be persecuted by him for a time, two times, half a time.
The bible speaks about not polluting the land, about how we should treat animals, money issues, and how we should be employers and employees. Many of these our founding fathers believed and practiced.
Now everyone does not have to believe in the bible that is between you and God. But the bible also says every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. My soul is to precious to live my life like he does not exist. Christians are called to be the salt of the earth. That means making decisions that alot of people don’t agree with. We are not her to appease mankind. We have to make sure God is pleased with us. I prayed before I voted against Amendment 2 here in Florida. I am told in Proverbs “Trust in the Lord with all my heart and lean not to my own understandin in all my ways aknowledge him and he will direct my path.”I prayed about who to elect president and many other ballot issues.
In closing we all need to respect each other and agree to disagree. The issues were voted on and the people have spoken. That what makes this a democracy. You may not like my beliefs but you are still called to love me as a person. I have many gay and lesbian friends I love them dearly should they be allowed to get married according to the laws of God? I believe no. But they are still my friends. I am called to draw them with love and everytime a door is open I do say the word of God. And alot of them ackowledge that they know it is not right but their hearts are in it. That’s why the bible tells us “To guard our hearts with all dilligence for out of it flows the issues of life”
Everyone be blessed and respect each other.
I didn’t know Wanda way gay
I never assume that anyone is until I really have a reason to. Everyone things I’m straight and ha, wrong 
I wish everyone could just work on being content in their own lives and allow others to be content as well. The way to do this is to allow everyone the same rights. It’s crazy that people toss in religion regarding prop 8 and they don’t throw that in anywhere else regarding society..I mean there’s a lot of shady things going on in the world and people are putting their effort towards who shouldn’t be able to get married? Why not focus your energy on feeding impoverished kids, assisting domestic violence victims, the elderly, etc??????? I really feel like typical religious folks need to wake up.
You’re right religious folks need to wake up and stop throwing bible verses that they believe condemn homosexuality at people while ignoring verses that speak of love, God’s redeeming grace and how we ARE ALL sinners saved by grace. Just like everyone else, there are gays who are Christians and those who are not. Yes, you can be gay and Christian. Everyone is so quick to condemn, isn’t this why the Bible says before you go to judge another pull the PLANK out of your eye before you reach for the speck in another’s?
Do none of these scriptures apply?:
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn of many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. ~ Romans 8:28-30
We cannot come to God and love Him unless He has first chosen us.
For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will — to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. ~ Ephesians 1:4-6
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. ~ Romans 8:22-23
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. ~ Colossians 3:11-12
Gee, look how many times the words love, grace and compassion were mentioned. I am all for gay marriage. As marriage is two people confirming their love and devotion to each other before God. This is not for man to decide, this between the couple and God. As black people, how quickly we forget that slaves (who were considered property) were also forbidden to marry as were mixed couples in 16 states. Let’s not talk about re-definition of marriage, as we had to redefine marriage in order to allow HUMAN BEINGS to enjoy their basic rights. Some heterosexuals are doing a good job of destroying the sanctity of marriage all by themselves…just think “Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire”. A marriage based on money not love…where is the public outrage against these types of marriages? Let’s not even talk about divorce…
Give me a break people, if you don’t like gay marriage don’t have one.
classy and natural – I encourage you to reread my post. I never called the Bible “a book of fairytales.”
The bible tells us to love. God is Love. For god so loved the world that he gave his begotten son. He did that for the everyone.
The bible says all have sinned and came short of the glory of God.
But it also says be ye holy for I am holy. Everyday we christians should strive for holiness. Do we miss the mark yes. A saint is just a sinner who fell
down and got up. The bible also says you can’t serve to masters. God loves all homosexuals! However, He hates the deeds of homosexuality because they are sinful
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
This clearly states God does not condone homosexual behavior you can try and say God is love and judge not for you won’t be judged but that is clearly in black and white God does not condone it.
Mark 16:15: “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
God tells us to go out and teach his word. We cannot just lie down and say its not our business. God teaches us to love one another. That means if i see the person that I love doing something wrong I need to say something. Whether it be with my vote or my voice.
And Barak Obama who is our great President-elect another Christian does not believe in same sex marriage. That was one of the reasons I voted for him. It is a democracy and we vote people in who line up with our beliefs. I am not judging anyones lifestyle I voted according to what I believe. That’t democracy the people have spoken.
bella this is the post I was referring to
This is not the United States of Christianity. Everybody comes out of the shadows to tell us what their book of fairy tales prescribes, but nobody asked you! We have a separation of church and state in this country. That’s hard to wrap some brains around, I know. Legislation doesn’t come from the pulpit
I apologize that I did not understand your post. All I seen was book of fairytales and I know this is a debate about christian beliefs and same sex marriage.
Classy and Natural — I finally understand your confusion. I didn’t say those words, that post was made by the ever-eloquent “afrobello,” who is one of few gentlemen who regularly reads and comments here on the site.
Thanks to you all for sharing your differing perspectives as peacefully and intelligently as possible. Over 100 comments and no angry name calling! I haven’t seen a discourse this civilized almost anywhere else. You guys rule!
also, Classy and Natural — Barack Obama disagrees with the word marriage, but he supports civil unions and spoke out against Prop 8. Please read:
http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/1051404.html
is bella and afrobella not one and the same. i’ve been using those names interchangeably. how unobservant of me.
mochachoc – maybe that’s my bad, I should be consistent. When I am at home, my log in is “bella.” When I am at work, it’s “afrobella.” And “afrobellO” is a whole nother person who I haven’t been so fortunate to meet yet.
classy and natural–
a typical gay “clobber passage you quote”; however, if you research “homosexual offenders” as its translated you will find that Paul lists many activities that will prevent people from inheriting the Kingdom of God. One has been translated as effeminate, or sexual perverts. The original Greek text reads malakoi arsenokoitai. The first word means soft; the meaning of the second word has been lost. It was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute. The early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. Since Martin Luther, it was interpreted as referring to masturbation. More recently, it has been translated as referring to homosexuals . Each translator seem to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves of and use it in this verse.
If we go over to verse 14 in this same chapter you will find that Paul also said “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”.
Does this mean that women should not be able to be pastors or even Sunday School teachers? I don’t think so, but if we take this text as-is without looking at the rest of the Bible and it’s historical and linguistic context then it would appear that women had no right to speak, preach or prophesy in church (which would contradict what Paul goes on to say).
Let’s say being gay is a sin, but if no sin is greater than any other sin then what we saying here? Didn’t Jesus himself speak against divorce? Yet, there is a 50% divorce rate. It’s a sin! I haven’t heard of a pastor who has refused to marry people on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th marriage. Why the all out rally against same gender loving people? And not divorce? Or other sins?
You mention one of the reasons you voted for Barack is because he does not believe in same-sex marriage…but if I read your posts correctly you would vote against it (same sex marriage). The difference is Barack realizes that simply because he doesn’t agree with something, it doesn’t make it his right to deny others their rights.
There are pastors who are saying that voting for Barack was a sin because of his stance on abortion. Again, in the debate Barack said that no one is pro-abortion, but women should have the right to choose.
I know you are sincere in what you say, and by being willing to converse about this shows a level of wanting to understand. But at the end of the deny, it is not your right to deny my right to get married anymore than it is my right to deny yours. Call gay people and their “sins” what you will and point to whatever Bible scriptures that you feel calls homosexuality a sin in God’s eyes. But at the end of the day, love is love and God is love. And yes, only He can judge.
Preach the Gospel to the ends of the earth, but don’t tell someone they should change first or be free of sin before they come to Christ. The Lord said my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Don’t put prerequisites on people coming to God. He calls people as they are, he is not like man who requires people be perfect before they accept you.
I am not perfect, I am a sinner saved by grace, I am black, I am a woman, I am a lesbian and I am a Christian. I am not an accident, my love for my partner is not against God. I am saved not because of anything I done or will do, but because I believe in Jesus and have professed him as Saviour with my mouth. Because Jesus was the lamb who died for my sins, I am saved by God’s grace. And nothing, not what people say or think will separate me for the love of God, ever, period.
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession — to the praise of His glory. ~ Ephesians 1:13-14
I do; however, believe there needs to be a separation of church and state. If we are defining marriage as a God-sanctioned institution and allowing atheists who don’t believe in God to get married…then isn’t that also against God too? I guess to extend the logic of the religious anti-gay marriage argument, wouldn’t we need to stop atheists and other non-believers from getting married as well? Just a thought…
Bella Obama opposes gay marriage but does support civil unions. But he also says it should be left up to the individual states. Florida and California have both said they oppose it.
Obama had previously said he opposes same-sex marriage but that each state should make its own decision
I am not trying to deny anyone there right to live the way they want to live. But when I go in to vote I vote according to my beliefs. It just so happens alot of people who are not on this board agree with me. Marriage is a holy instituion in front God. That’s my belief. I have nothing against homosexual relationships but I have strong moral convictions. Obama believes in civil unions. That’s diffrent than marriage. This allows couples to visit each other in the hospital and have benefits as a married couple, however it is not a marriage.I see nothing wrong with that. Marriage is godly and holy that is my belief.
” In the year 2000, the state of Alabama became the last state to repeal its law against mixed-race marriage. ”
0_o ?????
learn something new every day.
Whoa. 115 comments. Forgive me if I repeat anything that’s already been said.
Thank you for speaking out, Afrobella.
This is one issue I always struggle with, being raised a Christian woman. On one hand, my baptist upbringing taught me that homosexuality was wrong (along with fornication, but… well… you know). But on the other hand, I was taught not to judge other people. And I have a number of gay and lesbian friends that I love dearly, and though I may not fully understand their sexuality, I can’t bring myself to condemn. I often wonder… where does that leave me as a Christian?
This is why I can’t pick a side on the marriage issue. I understand it’s a sacred institution… but I also understand that it’s a sacred institution that’s been dragged through the collective mud as of late. You mentioned sham reality show marriages. I also think of marriages of convenience, marriages for money, polygamous marriages… and I’m like, well heck, sanctity be damned.
My closing argument is always… if we’re really create tougher domestic violence laws and make adultery a felony. Because those things destroy far more families than two women (or men) deciding to spend the rest of their lives together.
SORRY!
That last graf should read…
“My closing argument is always… if we’re really want to protect the sanctity of marriage, let’s create tougher domestic violence laws and make adultery a felony. Because those things destroy far more families than two women (or men) deciding to spend the rest of their lives together.”
Wow! What a hot topic.
Though I agree with CoilyFields and Classy and Natural I must also commend Tami, Veronica, and CurlyChronicles for also speaking my heart.
Though I am a Christian concerned about the judgement on our nation for allowing abortion and gay marriage, I believe our lazy, materialistic, uncompassionate American (so-called) Christian political pundits has shown a lack of concern for the other things that concerns God.
The rabid greed on Wall Street that led banks to sell houses with those adjustable rate mortgage loans which led to the mortgage crisis.
Domestic violence…When evangelist Juanita Bynum got a beat down from her pastor husband, she got very little sympathy from many christian elite.
The neglect of our children. Poverty, poor education, no health care for many working and middle class children. This country produces the bulk of the world’s pornography which destroys marriages.Pollution and the adulteration of our food supply. There are scriptures to support all of these issues.
Also, I must add that to everyone who thinks that bible is full of holes and inconsistencies, please read it for yourselves. I recommend New American Standard (NASB)translation. A Hebrew-Greek Keyword or a good study bible version of the NASB will give more insight into the history and culture behind the scriptures. The Amplified Bible is also great to use as a reference bible along with any other translation you may use.
The people of the book were not American or westernized. It was a Middle Eastern culture that was and is vastly different from our own. Also keep in mind the following points as you study.
1. God’s ultimate purpose is to reconcile man back to Him after the fall of Adam and Eve.
2.The Law of First Mention– as ceecee illustrated with Matthew 19 that God’s original intention gets obscured by man to satisfy his own desires. Put more weight on the passage of scripture that first introduces a topic.
3. Jesus’ death on the cross does annul somethings but not everything. Homosexuality did not get the green light after the cross so did stoning others to death for their sin.
4. The body of Christ is filled with imperfect people. When we start practicing love en mass then maybe the lost will be completly healed, delivered and set free to live a godly life with ease.
I’m sorry but the Bible and other religious texts were written in an age when people had little understanding of how the world works. Allow me to quote Heinrich Heine:
“In dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch-black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides.” (in God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens)
I am heartned by the Christians who have said that they cannot find it in themselves to deny gay and lesbian people the right to marry if they so wish. It seems to me they have acknowledged that if we are to truly live in a democratic society we cannot (indeed must not) allow our private beliefs to hinder the civil freedoms of others.
Tami put it succinctly when she asks why are religious people ok with atheists, the divorced, and so on marrying but not homosexuals. It makes no sense.
I don’t understand what happened in California but the result confirms to me that there are some things you simply can’t trust ‘the people’ to get right. We must defer to reason.
Some religions do joyfully and prayerfully perform gay and lesbian marriages–many Quaker churchs, reformed Jews, Unitarian Universalists, and more. These churches and the ceremonies they perform, and their understanding of the Bible are being discriminated against by the state. That’s also a first amendment violation–against those churches.
hopefully someday ppl will wake up and realise religion is just another form of control that requires that they never think outside the box and never question life or their true emotions.
i dont conform to anything that makes no absolute sense to me. its my mental freedom.
Hello Afrobella. I don’t agree with gay marriage and voted against it for 3 reasons.
First, I think that there should be a complete seperation of church and state. The institution of marriage is purely religous. Before religion was introduced, two adults decided to stay together and do thier thing. I think that everyone should have civil unions done at the court house and then have the right to have their own marriage/ commitment ceremony/ whatever they decide. I am married and while I technically got married when my husband and I signed everything at city hall, we did not begin our marriage until after the wedding.
Secondly, I am a Christian. The scriptures clearly speak against homosexuality.
My final reason is biological. The main reason two adults decided to live together before religion introduced marriage was to raise children. A gay couple cannot reproduce naturally with one another.
I think that gay advocates are fighting for the wrong thing. Focus on a true seperation of church and state- not on marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions should be for everyone and they should be changed so that they may be honored in the entire country instead of state-by-state.
honestly, i agree with ALMOST everything you’ve posted. and Mildred Loving was an inspiration for…well, love.
But the subject of marriage is a complex one. Marriage is not just a legal union. Its also a social and religious one as well. Socially and legally i believe that gay or straight, every couple should have the same rights. But religiously, you cant possibly force a religion to change its rule or else you face a whole different issue.
I think in a way i may fall under the “call it a civil union, just don’t call it marriage,†group but its so much more than that. legally, yes, they should be husband or wife respectively.
then again, prop 8 AND the defense of marriage act both sound a bit fishy to me. excluding one group of people from rights that others have access to no is not just unfair and unconstitutional, its illegal.
but i think differently. i don’t fall under the “100% yes” nor the “100% no” category. but if we all listen to each other we can find common ground and create a law that insures that those in love and gay have the same privileges and rights awarded to those who are straight.
i agree with Nicole above, esp that ‘Focus on a true seperation of church and state- not on marriage.”!!!!!!!! so true.
i think that once religion is seperated from the situation (religion not faith), then i think everyone would support gay marriage or at least civil unions.
I love the intelligent conversation on this issue going on here.
To people who say being gay is a choice you are wrong. You are born gay you don’t decide to be gay and stop saying you support their right, BUT… there is no but. You either support them fully or you don’t.
Anyone who says being gay is a choice is ignorant and/or bigoted and those of us who get this need to point that out every time someone tries to play this game.
Bella,
I just read this post an thanks so much for mentioning my blog. This is really an area that Black people are falling behind on – but I feel it’s a generational issue like the scars they still carry from Jim Crow and Civil Rights. Those that support Gay Rights need to take more care in how they frame any argument that would diminish that. We’ve come so far and still have a ways to go, but we’ll get there eventually.
I am glad someone mentioned the lack of discussion about other religions. I had to call my cousin to see what Islam said about homosexuality. Personally, I am not invested in this argument one way or the other. I have gay, bi, transgendered friends, and I think they should have the same benefits heterosexual couples have. I guess I have 2 frames of reference when making judgments the one that doesn’t care what two people do as long as it does not affect my money and the one that looks through life as a Christian.
As a Christian I understand that God does not want us to sin. He wants me to stop fornicating and talking about people. I know what I am doing is wrong in God’s eyes. I may have been born a gossiper, but in order to be pleasing to God I have to fight the urge just as my promiscuous (hetero) friend needs to fight the urge. I wish I had the sermon my pastor gave about judging others. I believe he said it was the Christian duty to tell another Christian that what they are doing is not pleasing to God. It’s not about judging but helping others build their relationship with Christ.
Now the me that does not care as long as it does not affect her pockets, believes that couples who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together and have equal protection should be given that right. It looks like they are going to have to take their fight to the Courts though and make this an issue of contract law.
When issues like these are placed on the ballots people are going to tend to base their opinions on whatever guides their moral compass so those spouting people need to separate their religion are going to have to get over that b/c it’s not going to happen. It does not make it right, but many allow their spirituality to guide their daily decisions. I feel more comfortable giving people the option to make their own decisions.
It’s a very fine line to walk. As Christians we are charged with bringing people towards Christ but I also respect the rights of others to live how they feel best suits them.
I have to admit, I could not concur with you in 100%, however it’s just my personal opinion, which certainly could possibly be wrong.